Preparing and repainting a classic

Randall, Use red and yellow flames. They'll never notice the Blue paint job. Somebody help put me out of this misery. I've gone amuk!!!!! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> W............

Uh....Ok. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

sounds like a wiener to me.

I would just gently attack the bubbles in question to get at the underlying problem and then touch up those areas after fixing the problem. Of course beign lazy I would just let it ride until they started to ooze or corrode, truth be known, HA! You should be able to get the paint matched at a local auto body paint supplier, either save some chips or take the car to them.

You seem concerned about things that were done to your car by a PO that are incorrect (color/interior fabric). If it were my car I wouldn't worry about these things, I would just drive and enjoy the car. Often when a car is "perfect" it is no longer fun to drive because you have to worry about any little scratch or ding that occurs so much it is no longer enjoyable.

47 caddys are drivers. they arent all that rare, so it isnt like you car has been ruined or anything (Luckily, he didnt put a 350 in it). Go ahead, put in that CD player. The only time these issues will come up and bite you is if you have it judged. Unless you really like collecting hardware, just enter it as exhibition, you still get to be on the show field.

the great thing about 47 caddys is you can just hop in and drive across the country if you are so inclined. If something breaks along the way parts are actually pretty easy to come by. You dont realize how many of us envy that situation.

dont worry, be happy! You have a nice car!

Shawn

So true, Shawn! Actually I chose the fabric and interior. The paint was the POs. Anyway the car runs great. I was restoring the Cadillac to be a touring car and driver. I don't mind the current paint, as I said the color is fine. And who the hell can afford a paint job these days?? And Earl Scheib costs $500 and only guarentees it for 4 years. I suppose were I to do all the preparation that would work. But I did do all of this (the new wiring harness and comfortable interior with the restored radio) so I could drive the car. I just want it to be nice and I do worry about the rust on the chrome and the bubbles under the paint. I will take it in to have the paint identified and then I will be able to touch it up. How cool is that?

wow earl has a warranty, i couldnt even buy the primer for 500.00. hey are the bubbles hard or soft? if hard the probably are rust or filler coming up. if soft just paint. ill put my money on the rust or filler. not good but it can be fixed. jim

Jim:

Yes they are hard, right along the fender line. I suspect bondo myself but rust is a very real possibility. I can check on that. I am now trying to get an analysis of the paint so I can have some touch up paint made. Then we will see.

Thanks for your input.

Randy <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

This reminds me of the line in the Paul Newman movie where the prison guard says..."what we have here...is a failure to communicate"....

Let's try and agree on some definitions. First...to "restore" a car...has little to do with "FIXING" a car. Many of us FIX old cars we need as "beaters". When we FIX an old car, ( and there is certainly no shame in that) we are doing what we have to do, to get it running, and keep it running, so we can use it. When we FIX an old car, the way it was when new is of little relevance, because we need it as a CAR, not as a history lesson in how the car was when it was delivered to its first owner as a new car.

The term "RESTORE"...means "return to its original condition". Obviously, a new car ready for delivery to its first owner did NOT have "bondo" used as a "quickee" repair, to fill in and/or cover up rust or accident-damaged sheet metal areas. It DID have a PROPERLY PREPARED paint surface. And that is the key. There are THREE vital things to remember about painting cars you are RESTORING (again...as distinguished from FIXING). PREPARATION.....the second...is PREPARATION...and the third is...yes...PREPARATION.

A car that is RESTORED ( again...not "fixed"...if you are just trying to "fix" the paint job...."bondo away"...who cares if it will bubble up a few years from now ). is going to be stripped to the bare metal, and any damaged metal areas replaced with METAL. Yes, "bondo type" fillers ARE used by restoration shops in some cases...but again...THINK of what we mean when we say "restoring". That means the car will look ( and run and operate) ...NOT "fixed"...but the way it did when it was first delivered. That is the whole point of Classic Car Club Of America judging...it is what our Club has always been about....these magnificent "best of the best" cars, with their elegant and beautiful workmanship..inside and out.

While the later cars now being "admitted" to classic status by our Club certainly do not have the elegance of the biggest and best classics of the 1930's...they were MOST DEFINITELY NOT FIXED when first delivered as new cars. Again...RESTORED is not "fixed". Let's use the correct terminology...so we can discuss WHAT should be done with a car, so that it best meets the needs of its owner. It is, after all...HIS car. !

PFH

(Perfidious...etc...)

Too true, PB!! And thank you for the clarification. I guess what I really meant was to repair my car's finish. Actually I would like to have the car totally repainted in its original color which was a beautiful deep midnight blue, I have no idea what they really called it, but for now I can only afford to touch up the current blue, I call it China Blue but who knows what it is.

I would like to restore the car but given my income level that is impossible. The car I am doing looks better each year and would suit just about anyone who wants a perfect project car. I am hoping I can get it to the point where it is reliable so I can use it more often.

I need to replace all the rubber on the car. The strips between the fender, and all of the small pieces that buffer the metal plates, and all the window stuff. But I wanted to know about fixing bubbles in the paint that are hard and stable. I want to check the whole car for rust.

What do you think, Perfidious? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Hi again, Randall !

First of all - thank you for the compliment of your asking me to comment further on your situation regarding painting. But, I must also add that I deeply resent, and am offended by your continual attack (see bottom of Randall's "posts" ) on us "stupid people". I have been a "stupid people" since as far back as I can remember - if you dont believe me...ask my friends...hey..buddy..knock it off....we stupid people have rights too...!

Hopefully, other "posters" with more experience in this will see my "post", and try and help you out with better information than I can provide for your situation.....here's some thoughts on your question.

We out here in the mountain west and south-west coast have much less familiarity with rust problems, then you guys east of the Missouri River do. It is not unusual to find a 60, 70, or even 80 year old car with no rust...yes...NO sheet metal corrosion problems

whatsoever.

Of course cars from the "snow / salt belt" do occasionaly show up in hobbyist's garages out here, and when they do, we "panic"...and justifably.

You are wrong if you think ANY "bubble" in your paint is "stable". If the job were "stable"...there wouldnt BE "bubbles". We can be pretty much certain, that what you are seeing is the insidious, destructive effects of oxidation. The metal in your car is "oxidizing" (fancy name we college boys use for rust), meaning, it is trying to return to its natural state.

Techically, a bubble is the result of the oxidation process generates gas pressure, which literally is blowing the paint off your car.

As car hbbyists, we are trying to keep machines intact, that were not designed to last more than 10 years. Just as an example of how what we are trying to do with our collector cars, is a bit different than what the original builders intended.....some of you may have seen the Packard advertisements that bragged they were building "TEN YEAR CARS". Wow...they tried to make em last TEN years....and here we are....so many years later....

Bottom line....Randall...you are NOT going to like my suggestion...it is going to be expensive and difficult for you, perhaps even impossible.

You have to halt the corrosion process. PERIOD. If you now have bubbles in SOME areas, you can bet your hindquarters it will start showing up in other areas eventually unless you halt it. That means, you have to take off ANY sheet metal where there are seams and "welt strips" (rear fenders, in the case of your '47 Caddy) or direct contact with any other metal (such as grill and trim parts....) and get ALL sheet metal down to the BARE METAL. Since, because of your own personal situation, we are trying to come up with a FIX, rather than a RESTORATION, we can and should take a few "liberties". That means once the metal has been FULLY CLEANED, I would go ahead and use "bondo" to fill in pitted or damaged areas. Then the sheet metal has to be sealed with primer, typically "red oxide" based.

After that is done, you can think about paint choices. GM cars were typically painted with nitro cellulose lacquer up to the mid-1950's, when the first of the "magic mouse milk" chemical paints (in GM's case...so called "acrylic laquer" started showing up. In your harsher climate, on a car you were going to use more often than the average car buff, I would FORGET about the "authentic" finishes, and go for the MUCH more durable modern "two part" paint systems.

I would stick to a non-metallic color - these are easier to "spot repair" the eventual "dings" and breaks in the paint surface. ANY break in the paint surface should be treated as a potential major disaster, because that is how moisture gets in behind the paint and primer film, to start working on the bare metal, with the inevitable result of "bubbles" and "rust thru".

Randall - you seem like a heck of a nice guy...I really hate situations like this...where I have to tell a well-meaning nice guy that I have NO realistic solution for your particular problem. Trying to keep a collector-car preserved and running as a "daily beater", for a fellow who is disabled and thus probably not able to do much of his own work, on a limited budget, is not realistic. Think of it this way - yeah...we OWN the things....but do we have a responsibility to think of ourselves as "guardians" of historical-interest cars....for the future..? And if so....seriously...and I know this is a bitter pill......are you qualified to be a "guardian"...?

I respectfully suggest you consider modifying your plan for how you propose to utilize your collector cars. If you are forced from your own personal limitations to just do "spot repairs", perhaps it is time for you to think of your "collector cars" as "fair weather" friends, using them only on the nicest days, for limited purposes, storing them when not in use in the driest, most tempertature-stable storage you can get, and NEVER turn a hose on them (wash gently with damp cloth, so you dont have water running into the seams.

Wish I could be of more use to you...but...a sad fact of life..is that not all problems are solveable.

Good luck !

Perfidious Reindeer Hunter (who has given up hunting Reindeer...and now hunts the great Arizona Nauga....(big money in nauga hides.....!)

PFH

Another wonderful post, PB. I regret you took my comments against stupidity personally. It was not a shot at any one person or group but hopefully a flare to bring attention back to the reoccuring trends to glorify narrow mindedness and basic ignorance over intellectual and spiritual growth. It is what Friedrick von Schiller meant in his poems trying to raise awareness.

So I did NOT intend to insult you, of all people, or anyone out there.

My sincerest apologies.

I see your point on the guardianship of the car. I would have to agree and because I do agree I have posted several notices to sell or trade it to someone who can better care for it.

I have had not comments let alone any interest but that is not surprising. I hope to approach the local Cadillac LaSalle club to see if I can pass it on. Until that time I will do all I can to continue to bring it back from ruin. I have done a fair job and I think it is a good project car. Unfortuantely there aren't many who care for the 6269 of 47. That is OK. I am sure there is someone who will want it.

Again thank you for the advice. I print these off and add them to my book for reference!

<img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"lighten up".....Randall...this is supposed to be both educational...AND fun !

PFH

heheheh would that I could! Ive been dieting for years!! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OK less seriousness and more fun! No really...I have been a Northern Arctic Wolf for many, many years and I LOVE to hunt moose and reindeer. The painting question may have been too inprecise to say what I meant to say. I realise I need to pull the fenders and take it all to bare metal. I am looking at doing just that. Now that the interior is done (I am pricing putting in the proper broadcloth...a lovely blue grey affair but until then the deluxe limo cloth will have to do) and the mechanics are almost done to spec, I want to do the body in the proper blue. Do you guys know what that might be? What numbers off the body plate would tell me that?

I am still intent on selling the car but since the response has been SO underwhelming, I am proceeding on the ass-umption that it will take some time and I will be owning the car for a while. Honestly I would love a '56...that is what I started out with in the first place.

Ideas? Comments? And watch the skin, PFH...its tender <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Robert Turnquist's Hibernia Auto Restoration, in New Jersey, and Bill Hirsh, both sell paints, and have the color codes to get the exact color you want.

Bear in mind that colors in recent years are much more vivid than those of the classic era.....even the immediate post-war era ( yes...I know about those wild color schemes in those beautiful FORTUNE MAGAZINE ads...but most of us know those were conservative times....and the people who could afford our classics when new were typically older, more conservative types...).

In view of the above, you might not like the REAL, AUTHENTIC factory colors..simply because in our "mind's eye"....too many years have gone by since we've seen them new !

No-one would fault you for picking a color YOU like - which you can do at any automotive paint shop - just pick the color - get a sample, and send it to one of the above suppliers.

PFH

Ah now there is a concept! I should have thought of that. Well I figure if I am going to do it at all I should get the right color. After all I did not choose this one. And since the gas tank affair I am going through now has gone up from $600 to $1075.00, I should want it done right just because $3-5000 is gonna hurt. But that is way down the line. There is still much to do on the car. Thanks so much for all your suggestions! I will at least get the right paint to fix the problems so they don't get worse and then when it is time to paint it for real, I will be armed with the right paint code for the right color! Huzzah! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Randall I would definitely listen to PB here, I cant tell from his posts that he knows what he's talking about.

Randall's story about how much he is sinking into his old car, should be a lesson to all who contemplate getting involved in the hobby.

The sad truth is, there is NO such thing as a "cheap way to get started". Invariably, that run-down / neglected old car "priced low, ( "since it is a "starter" car" ) is going to turn into an economic disaster.

The economic facts of life are it is MUCH cheaper to buy a nice, well-maintained DRIVEABLE car, than to try and resurrect the end result of someone's neglect. And not only do you save TONS of money, the nice well-maintained DRIVEABLE car, gets you something you can use and share and be proud to show off (without fear of someone turning up their nose in disgust about less-than-authentic "compromises".

As Randall has discovered, about the only thing more disappointing than buying a neglected old car and trying to fix it up, is......trying to sell it after you are done "fixing" it.

Unless, of course, you have done it RIGHT. But "there's the rub"...."doing it right"....means understanding what we mean in the English language, when we say "restore".

At the risk of repeating myself ( I am doing so because I feel this is SO important to those of you thinking of getting involved in the old car hobby, and/or adding a car to your "stable"....let me again point out...that RESTORE means something....it is a REAL word....and it dosnt mean "FIX "!

Poor Randall....oh...he "fixed" that Cadillac...and...now he cant GIVE it away. Had he RESTORED it..meaning had he "returned it to a condition most closely resembling the way it was on delivery day"....it would probably be snapped up pretty quickly.

But...again...the cost to take the end result of neglect, and RESTORE is typically going to be many MANY TIMES MORE than buying a properly maintained "near-MINT" car would be. So even if he had RESTORED rather than FIXED that old Cadillac, he would have suffered a catastrophic and frustrating financial loss. For example, he wont be able to do the CHROME on this old car of his for what it would have cost to buy a damn near MINT one.

Cars are made of metal. Metal corrodes. You RESTORE the metal-work the RIGHT way, or the corrosion process will CONTINUE to get more and more obvious under the "fixing"..... until you have, at best...a "parts car" that will be valued accordingly.

Like it or not..that IS the way it is. I wish we could "get the word out" to more nice people like Randall, and put a halt to this tragic process of people throwing money away on what will eventually become a big disappointment to them.

Perfidious

So your advice to him would be to crush the car and take his losses?

You werent listening...my advice is to THINK. Cool, dispasionate, analysis. Yeah...I know...I know....THINKING where a course of action will take you, might prevent a lot of those "road to hell is paved with good intentions" folks from wasting a lot of asphalt.......

Hmmmm....but that would be bad for business for the guys selling asphalt to well-meaning people....

Perfidous

Dear Restorer32,YOU know what lawyers charge for advice,be cheaper for Randall to keep the car .diz <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />