Long Wheelbase cars

Marmon built two Sixteens on a 154-inch chassis, both with 7-passenger touring bodies by Waterhouse.

John:

When one gets beyond 153-154", that's into professional/commercial chassis length. For passenger cars, how the car is proportion determines if it's still appealing. The Bugatti Royale Type 41s were scaled well enough to not look freakish on their 170" wb.

On the other hand, there was no possible way this hideous monstrosity was going to look right: Father Divine's Duesenberg J "Throne Car"... (Bus) 178" wheelbase.

Steve

https://media.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2026_02/DuesenbergJ-FatherDivinesBusa.jpg.936cd2d16dc4fa0e42df5a7556f428d3.jpg" src="https://media.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2026_02/DuesenbergJ-FatherDivinesBusa.jpg.936cd2d16dc4fa0e42df5a7556f428d3.jpg" height="495" width="873" alt="Duesenberg J - Father Divine's Bus a.jpg" loading='lazy'>

Good catch on the underrated Reo Royale. Forgot about those. Good engines. One did well during the Indy "junk formula" years.

Hispano-Suiza Type 68 J12 came 135-, 144-, 150- and 162-inch wheelbase. Too tall a first gear, weak clutch, the latter usually remedied with a Borg & Beck 12-inch Ford F-350 unit. The chassis was dated, on which placed a 9.4-liter V-12 later used in French railcars. Like the Duesenberg J, the 1931-38 J12--it took that long to dispatch perhaps 120 of them, just as it took eight years and several iterations to sell 480 J Duesenbergs-- was an outsized, cost-little-object triumph of craftsmanship past its era. The engine, like the Marmon 16, was sleeved. The only thing i liked about it was the simple thumbscrew on each valve tappet, every audible click indicating a thousandth of a millimeter, a real boon to the time-consuming shims used in everything from Duesenbergs to XK Jags and Fiats.

A late friend who owned a conga line of high-end Gallic fare, had the below Vanvooren-bodied 1933 cabriolet first owned by French industrialist M. Potez (the P in SPAD), from 1937 to 1952 by Picasso, an egomaniac misogynist according to those who knew him, so such a barouche making sense.

Assuming this thread more a just wondering aside, not lauding long wheelbases? Never fathomed wanting such beasts. Another friend is on his third consecutive Model J, like his preceding on the 153 1/2-inch wheelbase.

Ridiculous. Impressive engine, of course; a fast truck. No synchro, and E.L. Cord used the marketing ploy of overpricing hoping to add cachet, as did the Type 68 with prices to $14,500, because there was even in the Depression enough wealth to buy more than the big Hisso's and Model J's paltry numbers. Other than the extra speed and wanting to wow the proletariat, smart money opted for a Chrysler Imperial, Stutz, Packard or Pierce. The Type 68 Hisso good for an honest 100, most Js in road trim, 3.8, 4, 4.1 and 4.3 axles, middle two most common, 105. A healthy Imperial or Pierce would do 95, enough for most but playboys, Hollywooders, scions of industrial wealth.

Some of us, even had we all the money, prefer the more rational sized late '30s, immediate prewar "road cars," luxe and not, on the standard, shortest wheelbases, if bias permitted. Another friend, no longer with us, owned various Cords, always two at a time, a thoroughly fettled Westchester and Phaeton. Tho' a grille man preferring his cylinders in one tidy row, agreed with him that those were "just the right size."

The below garnered awards at Bauble Beach and other shows, with Jacques and wife. Photo by Lisa Evans.

Minerva. Many were ~153 inches. The 1929 one at the Crawford is a custom design with 180 inch wb. (The Royale was only 169 inches ?).

Courtesy of the Western Reserve Historical Society (there are also better photos on the web):

https://media.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2026_02/1929-minerva-am-limo-1-300x183.jpg.6090e42cd6b6a3ef55cefb50eeb151d6.jpg" src="https://media.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2026_02/1929-minerva-am-limo-1-300x183.jpg.6090e42cd6b6a3ef55cefb50eeb151d6.jpg" height="478" width="784" alt="1929-minerva-am-limo-1-300x183.jpg" loading='lazy'>

John BloomFeb 14, 2026

Pulling off good looks in some of these very long cars was kind of hit or miss.

I totally agree. The stylist/coachbuilder had a difficult task to render on paper what the finished "in the metal" car would look like. All cars have to deal with the sphere shape of the wheels and their size diameter, that in itself is a great factor to compliment or embrace well design wise - fenders, hood height all play into that. Color - well I have commented on that enough here. Pre WWII the color value and choice was of a different nature then what some people who restore/own cars now believe is proper for the era. Some on cars just for the aura of saying "it's mine" so that must make them in their thought better than those who don't. That mindset really did not prevail in pre-WWII era. The economics of the 1930s played into that - wealthy people did not want to put their life and $ into someone's face who didn't have $ for a meal - "brother, can you spare a dime". the attitude of the concours exhibitions pre war in France/England etc are not like those currently, people attended them at the time and did not "brag" they were someplace like they do now.

I still think "Pebble" is the name of the daughter of Fred and Wilma Flintstone...................??

This was my dual cowl Duesenberg (non-original body) on the 153 1/2-inch wheelbase. The long cowl helped with the overall proportions.

Good opportunity for me to talk about hood lengths. The longer wheelbases require a long hood to balance the proportions. With any of the prewar carts the magic number is 72". Very few cars were built with hoods that long. A few:

Measured from the forward tip of the radiator to the windshield.

1. Model J is 78" but is broken up by the cowl band. Some of the later cars this was eliminated or painted body color.

2. 8 liter Bentley is 76"

3. My humble Royale is 74" with no cowl band and painted radiator shell.

4. The Stearns J & H cars are 72".

There are some other big boy cars with greater than 72" hoods, like the J12 Hisso but I don't know the exact length.

And my Stutz is obviously not a production car but it wins just about any hood length contest. The wheelbase is 145".

https://media.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2026_02/July18ThumbDrive2539.jpg.58931c57fd4a348828aa80cd549c4c75.jpg" src="https://media.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2026_02/July18ThumbDrive2539.jpg.58931c57fd4a348828aa80cd549c4c75.jpg" height="1254" width="1800" alt="July 18 Thumb Drive 2 539.jpg" loading='lazy'>

alsancleFeb 17, 2026

Good opportunity for me to talk about hood lengths. The longer wheelbases require a long hood to balance the proportions. With any of the prewar carts the magic number is 72". Very few cars were built with hoods that long. A few:

Measured from the forward tip of the radiator to the windshield.

1. Model J is 78" but is broken up by the cowl band. Some of the later cars this was eliminated or painted body color.

2. 8 liter Bentley is 76"

3. My humble Royale is 74" with no cowl band and painted radiator shell.

4. The Stearns J & H cars are 72".

There are some other big boy cars with greater than 72" hoods, like the J12 Hisso but I don't know the exact length.

And my Stutz is obviously not a production car but it wins just about any hood length contest. The wheelbase is 145".

In reading about Kellner coachbuilt cars, I have begun to appreciate Hispano Suiza's and learn more about them. My education was "below the ground floor" with them, knowing them in name only and not understanding the models and years. I think Kellner built on HS more than any other marque based on the readings, photos and documentation in "The Kellner Affair". They are impressive cars, and certainly had some LARGE models.

I remember seeing a RR Phantom ll????? with a hood going all the way to the windshield with the appearance from above that there was no separate "cowl" portion. I don't know what its measurement was, but the appearance was long and beautiful. I can't remember the bodystyle name or the builder.

AJ, when will we see you terrorizing the streets with that Stutz?

edinmassFeb 17, 2026

Generally speaking, after 147 inch chassis length, lines start to get thrown off from classical proportions. So typically the standard prouction chassis with custom coachwork are on 147 +/- an inch.

Currently Chip Fooze is building a custom one off on an original Duesenberg long wheelbase chassis. I have had discussions with him on making a two door car look AND fit well on the longer chassis…….some examples look good, most do not.

Lots of beautiful stuff on that 153.5 chassis, I hope to see what he has in mind some day. Designing something like that is pretty daunting. You can get so much right, but miss on an element or two and things look off. I'll be cheering for a Roadster..........

John BloomFeb 17, 2026

In reading about Kellner coachbuilt cars, I have begun to appreciate Hispano Suiza's and learn more about them. My education was "below the ground floor" with them, knowing them in name only and not understanding the models and years. I think Kellner built on HS more than any other marque based on the readings, photos and documentation in "The Kellner Affair". They are impressive cars, and certainly had some LARGE models.

I remember seeing a RR Phantom ll????? with a hood going all the way to the windshield with the appearance from above that there was no separate "cowl" portion. I don't know what its measurement was, but the appearance was long and beautiful. I can't remember the bodystyle name or the builder.

AJ, when will we see you terrorizing the streets with that Stutz?

Lots of beautiful stuff on that 153.5 chassis, I hope to see what he has in mind some day. Designing something like that is pretty daunting. You can get so much right, but miss on an element or two and things look off. I'll be cheering for a Roadster..........

The Brewster bodied PII were 72" on the dime.

My dad used to joke that he was never gonna live long enough to see the Stutz finished and he made to 97. Now I make the same joke.

It was Orrie Simko who represented the Phantom (was it a I versus II?) for sale maybe 2 years ago with the hood which extended to the windshield. Here's another example, although it carries a 144" wb, the front expanse is uninterrupted.

https://media.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2026_02/f9610c598f0b3a15b22ba72d38d96e20e37dcfa9.jpg.a42c424b82e8afa889aea8bec400acc9.jpg" src="https://media.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2026_02/f9610c598f0b3a15b22ba72d38d96e20e37dcfa9.jpg.a42c424b82e8afa889aea8bec400acc9.jpg" height="676" width="1169" alt="f9610c598f0b3a15b22ba72d38d96e20e37dcfa9.jpg" loading='lazy'>

prewarnutFeb 17, 2026

It was Orrie Simko who represented the Phantom (was it a I versus II?) for sale maybe 2 years ago with the hood which extended to the windshield. Here's another example, although it carries a 144" wb, the front expanse is uninterrupted.

There is something off about that photo (AI enhanced?). However, it is a PII and I'm 95% sure that is a 150" wheelbase. Unless it is a PII body mounted on a PI chassis. But again photo looks weird to me.

Here is the car that Orrie was selling.

https://media.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2026_02/287AJS-1.jpeg.c1f900cfee63a30a60448676e0c848c6.jpeg" src="https://media.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2026_02/287AJS-1.jpeg.c1f900cfee63a30a60448676e0c848c6.jpeg" height="1800" width="1349" alt="287AJS-1.jpeg" loading='lazy'>

alsancleFeb 18, 2026

There is something off about that photo (AI enhanced?). However, it is a PII and I'm 95% sure that is a 150" wheelbase. Unless it is a PII body mounted on a PI chassis. But again photo looks weird to me.

Here is the car that Orrie was selling.

AJ, that is exactly it. I studied those pictures several times. I wonder if that ad still exists on the forum or someplace else with all the photos?

prewarnutFeb 18, 2026

AJ, I pulled the photo of the RR Brewster town car from a RM auction from 2015. I believe the description said 144". I don't think AI existed then but then again I'm still not sure it really exists now.

• Dan.

Ok. Now I see. Just a stylized photo. 100% PII with 150" wheelbase. All the LHD cars were 150".

I'm not sure I can find the specs but this Hispano Suiza T56 on offer by E. Thiesen is really striking in profile.

https://media.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2026_02/161203-1073298-car-20250827_150037-hispano_suiza_t56_fiol_02.jpg.6c707995ae71e90465e82ab15614dda0.jpg" src="https://media.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2026_02/161203-1073298-car-20250827_150037-hispano_suiza_t56_fiol_02.jpg.6c707995ae71e90465e82ab15614dda0.jpg" height="603" width="1290" alt="161203-1073298-car-20250827_150037-hispano_suiza_t56_fiol_02.jpg" loading='lazy'>

prewarnutFeb 21, 2026

I'm not sure I can find the specs but this Hispano Suiza T56 on offer by E. Thiesen is really striking in profile.

Dan, I saw that too. Looks great. I need to brush up on the T56. I thought the later cars were not up to snuff relative to the earlier J12 and H6 models.