Best Value in a Roadster

JUST A SHORT NOTE....Most companies stopped building true roadsters in the 1930/1931/1932 model year. Thus, you may or may not want to consider convertible coupes. Simply, drivability is what dictates price. The better the driver, the more valuable the car..............a Series 80/81 Pierce can be bought in the mid 50's for a very nice car.......like 90 points plus. With a high speed rear, they are very good drivers. Whey won't keep up with an 8. It's all a compromise. 

edinmassApr 28, 2021

JUST A SHORT NOTE....Most companies stopped building true roadsters in the 1930/1931/1932 model year. Thus, you may or may not want to consider convertible coupes. Simply, drivability is what dictates price. The better the driver, the more valuable the car..............a Series 80/81 Pierce can be bought in the mid 50's for a very nice car.......like 90 points plus. With a high speed rear, they are very good drivers. Whey won't keep up with an 8. It's all a compromise. 

Ed, that is a good point.  I've been looking at different models through the years with their convertible coupe vice Roadster.  In some models, they both look great, in others, the the Roadster is just a lot sexier.  I guess it depends on each individual model as to considering convertible coupes.  Those raked windshields move me......

I like the Pierce Roadsters of that era.  The lack of speed in those big 6's vice an 8 is an important point, but not something to cause me to take a pass.  I will confess this is a highly visual thing to me......  

John BloomApr 28, 2021

got me thinking about what is the "best value" in a Roadster of the earlier Classic Era.

Not a roadster but that 90 series convertible coupe that was mentioned in another post recently sounds pretty appealing for the money. It may come up a little short on panache but I recall someone commenting on here that in some ways that car is even better than a Caddy of the same era.

Oh sorry, I just noticed you're discussing pre '31. Please disregard

Styling is great and you have to love what you see, but if you don't fit behind the wheel comfortably due to the lack of being able to move the seat back so you can accommodate you leg length then you won't like or use the car for anything more then a quick trip to a local store to run an errand. In the many decades I have owned and driven the era that roadsters were made ,I was happy to have been in them but knew that if I had to be there for over an hour long trip I would be paying the price with aches afterwards. People in that era were much shorter then they are now.

I thought I'd start doing some research on the earlier year group of my initial post: (1925-1928 Roadsters).  Since Ed brought up Pierce Arrow's model 80, I'm going to dig in for a few days and look at what Pierce Arrow offered in Roadster platforms during those years.  After that, I'll look in the same year group (1925-1928) at other American made options: Cadillac, Packard, Lincoln, Chrysler, Studebaker President, Stutz, Marmon, ??????? (help me out here for other makes to research in that year range of Classics with a roadster platform.

Pierce Arrow Roadster Options 1925-1928:

In 1925, Pierce had two lines, the 33 series which rode on a 138 inch wheelbase, and the 80 series that rode on a 130 inch wheelbase.  By 1925, the 80 series was in its second year of the model run.  The 33 had a 414.7 Six and four wheel mechanical brakes, the 80 had a 288.7 Six and I believe it also had four wheel mechanical brakes?  In 1927, the 33 series became the 36 series, still on a 138 inch wheelbase, and in 1928 the 80 series became the 81 series.  What input for those Pierce Roadsters (Runabouts?) do you have?  I'm sure Ed and other Pierce guys could write a book about my naive question.  I initially put in my post "a class 3 car or better under 100,000".  Ed said that a 80/81 Roadster can be bought well for the mid 50's.  Can a 33 Roadster be bought today for under 100,000?  I saw one sold at auction about 6 years ago for 93,500 at Hershey.  What is the market today for these Roadster options from Pierce Arrow (circa 1925-1928)?  Driving  and ownership experience or thoughts?  What do those with more experience in this specific category say about the 25-28 Pierce relative to other Make's Roadster options in those years.    Any input is appreciated.  

My stream of consciousnesses echoing some of my friends above:

1.  Stutz is cool and has a sport element to it.   I think you can get a decent AA or BB for under 100k - but not a M, SV, or DV.   For a small club the guys are fairly supportive.

2. I was fooling around with a Pierce Model 80 doctor's coupe for Ed so I have a bit of experience.   It is not as big or high end as what you commonly expect from Pierce, but you should be able to get one for less than a similar Stutz or Packard.   It is a relatively simple car and the club is supportive with lots of activity.   It won't be as fast as something from 5 years later.

3. Size matters and the point about fitting in the car was a good one.

4.  Much like buying IBM, it is hard to go wrong with Packard.  If roll up windows are not an issue,   I would aim for a 33/34 Standard Eight Packard.

5.  Again with the roll up windows,  that 32 Caddy Conv Coupe that was for sale on here for a long time was a great car - I think it finally sold on BAT for around 60K.  I think Ed will say avoid the earlier Caddy as they are technically a challenge to maintain.

6.  Another good option is a Studebaker President Roadster.   You should be able to get a decent 31 for under 100k.   The 32 is made of unobtainium.

In the non Hyman market,  you can find one of these for under 100k and you get a OHC straight eight.

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6640-1928-stutz-series-bb-two-passenger-speedster/

AJ, I like the look and history of Stutz.  As a Hoosier, they are always something that catches my eye and is on my radar, but only the visuals.  I have never ridden or driven one.  There was a Bearcat (not sure of the year) in my hometown that I remember.  I knew as a kid it was something special.  

Packards are definitely something I'll research and love the styling.  Without going through this analysis, I will tell you that a 640/740 Roadster is something that would be a "keeper" forever, but I'm not sure if that can be done for under 100K.  I will maybe do some auction research on Packards next.  

I seem to have this difficult reputation of the earlier Cadillacs in my mind that you mention.  Not sure of the differences in parts, reliability year to year in those Cadillacs.  Again something to research. 

Studebaker Presidents.....Did I mention I'm a Hoosier!?...  I love them and also wondered if they could be bought for under 100K.  That too will be an auction search I will do.

Pierce Arrows.  I guess I do know that the "little Pierce" is a different experience than the big Pierce.  Your comments further back that up.  I had a friend tell me that the 80 series reminded him of the larger Buicks of the day.  That isn't a slight because Buick made some great cars, but I think I get what you're saying about the more simple less grand nature of the 80/81 series (relative to the 33 or 36 series Pierce).  I saw an 80 Runabout and thought it was a very good looking car.  I don't know production and survival numbers for the Big and Little Pierces of that time frame.  Can a larger Pierce Roadster be bought for under 100K today.  Does the simpler nature of the 80/81 lend itself to a less complicated owner experience?  I seem to always hear good things about the Club support for Pierce Arrow and that is a factor to consider if you're going to be an owner.  I'm going to spend the weekend reading as much about Pierce Arrow's of this era before moving to another Make.  I love the research, I can get really caught up in it.  And it's free.....!

Roadsters are a simple numbers game, the faster it goes, the more it will cost. There are a few sleepers like the Stude President. That said, unless you buy a well restored car that is sorted, you open yourself up to dumping in big money........if it needs an engine, add 30k minimum.......and 18 months. There are plenty of Packards from 1925 to 1928, but they drive like a Packard for 1925 to 1928. Personally I would pass over the Packards........too many of them for my taste. How you intend to drive it is important. A Series 80/81 Pierce is a fantastic car, and with a high speed rear end vary drivable. If your only a local driving type person, without a trailer and no interest in long tours, almost any car will be fine. Want to do a trans con ? Better look at the big boys. In context......My 1917 White in Southern Florida is no fun, and I’m too on edge to enjoy it. Bring it out to the sticks.......and it’s a pure joy. Most owners today drive their cars too fast. Last week we took the V-16 for a ride and never got over 40 mph. It was a great turn around..........we could actually see the scenery, and the drive was very relaxing. It is nice to have a car that will go highway speeds and be safe, but the cost is staggering. Take your time, and don’t buy a car unless it will drive 100 miles straight in 90 degree weather.

I totally agree with Ed's statement that "Most owner's today drive their cars to fast". Because it may have a larger engine, and was of the luxury price range when new , many just think the car is capable ( in a modern attitude for cars) to be able to fly down the highway with the rest of the modern cars. You are i a 80+ year old car , take the time, enjoy the view. I am not stating you need to keep it in high gear at 35 mph all day long.

Franklin roadster of the 1928 series 12 to 1931 series 15 era are great. Have all steel chassis ( this started in 1928 on the longer wheelbase cars of which the roadster was one) if the engine is well sorted they cruise along at 50 mph all day long up or down hill , long grands etc. If tweaked a bit engine wise in adjustments can be a bit more so speed wise. Trying to locate a Franklin roadster of that era can be a difficult thing to do, especially the 1930-31 era. They are long lasting cars! I knew of a 1931 roadster in Brooklyn ,NY that was in the hands of its original owner , my buddy Henry Rovich, for about 45 years, it was his only car - ever. Car still exists in New England someplace with several hundred thousand miles on it . ( no that wasn't a typo)

WG

Walt GMay 1, 2021

I totally agree with Ed's statement that "Most owner's today drive their cars to fast". Because it may have a larger engine, and was of the luxury price range when new , many just think the car is capable ( in a modern attitude for cars) to be able to fly down the highway with the rest of the modern cars. You are i a 80+ year old car , take the time, enjoy the view. I am not stating you need to keep it in high gear at 35 mph all day long.

Franklin roadster of the 1928 series 12 to 1931 series 15 era are great. Have all steel chassis ( this started in 1928 on the longer wheelbase cars of which the roadster was one) if the engine is well sorted they cruise along at 50 mph all day long up or down hill , long grands etc. If tweaked a bit engine wise in adjustments can be a bit more so speed wise. Trying to locate a Franklin roadster of that era can be a difficult thing to do, especially the 1930-31 era. They are long lasting cars! I knew of a 1931 roadster in Brooklyn ,NY that was in the hands of its original owner , my buddy Henry Rovich, for about 45 years, it was his only car - ever. Car still exists in New England someplace with several hundred thousand miles on it . ( no that wasn't a typo)

WG

Walt, that roadster is in central Mass somewhere as I have actually have had it coming down the road at me on some back country roads I drive on the weekend. The current owner doesn't pull over to shoot the breeze...I motioned to him a few times and he just keeps going. Looks all original. I usually see it in the Palmer area, probably going to NB Pease & Co. Ed

Ed, if an 80 series Pierce doesn’t have a high speed rear end, what is the ballpark for making that change?  I’m not a speed demon and the season of life I’m in doesn’t have lots of time for touring, but the capability to comfortably go 60-65 is a nice attribute, all things considered. 
 

Walt, I am a Franklin lover. They have always impressed me and I love to go to the Franklin museum in Tucson.  I get a sense that they are few and far between, but something to seriously consider if one was available. 

Hi Ed, the car you have seen is maroon, and basically an original car that did come from the Mass. area. Current owner for many many decades and I have been friends for half a century and ran the Franklin Club annual meet or Trek as they call it together in 1972-73! ( two ornery , think alike fellows who love pre WWII era cars and are firm believes in driving the cars we own) That is one heck of a good running car that has been very well sorted mechanically.  The owner doesn't often stop to chat as he doesn't reside in the area and is usually on his way back home or "on a mission " to do something. He also really loves cars made in Springfield , Mass. but not R-R,  but S-D. Enough information as I don't want to reveal his name out of respect for privacy.

Walt, the S-D plant is owned by family on my mother’s side........since the 60’s and maybe earlier.

edinmassApr 28, 2021

JUST A SHORT NOTE....Most companies stopped building true roadsters in the 1930/1931/1932 model year. Thus, you may or may not want to consider convertible coupes. Simply, drivability is what dictates price. The better the driver, the more valuable the car..............a Series 80/81 Pierce can be bought in the mid 50's for a very nice car.......like 90 points plus. With a high speed rear, they are very good drivers. Whey won't keep up with an 8. It's all a compromise. 

ED - Series 80 P/A cars are all too anemic for most drivers . They are ok for a memorial day parade but short of that ....

Mike........a good series 80/81 is fine. Problem is most are very far from optimal performance and ten miles away from being dialed in. Pop in a gear set, and they are fun cars. Again, the reason they are 1/3 the price of an eight is apparent........but for many who drive five hundred miles a year or less, on back roads, they are fine. It all depends on expectations. I know a guy who has driven a T cross country a few times...........

Ed- Agreed .

Far be it from me to disagree with Ed on a Pierce Arrow question,  but I drove this up and down the driveway and it feels very different than your typical 1930 ish big Classic to me.   Still very cool, and probably a ball on the back roads at 30-35 Mph.

AJ, that car is not sorted, and with a gear set would make a decent caravan car.

alsancleMay 2, 2021

Far be it from me to disagree with Ed on a Pierce Arrow question,  but I drove this up and down the driveway and it feels very different than your typical 1930 ish big Classic to me.   Still very cool, and probably a ball on the back roads at 30-35 Mph.

AJ, thanks for sharing that eye candy. A great looking car.  Ed, is the gearing the same in an 80 vice an 81?  
 

Also, no one has commented, but is getting a 33 or 36 for under six figures not realistic?  My gut tells me that there aren’t many and the number changing hands at any price is low ....

1929 Packard 640 Roadster Custom
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/packard/640/2484633.html