MD
@md murray
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I'm surprised by the Pebble invite. Definitely frowned upon by the top shows.
Apr 11, 2021I'm surprised by the Pebble invite. Definitely frowned upon by the top shows.
EXHIBITED............probably filling in a last minute opening on the field.........today, they wouldn't use it as a filler. Especially since there are real examples available. Notice what auction is listing it? Even the big boys won't touch it.
Apr 11, 2021Some Deusenbergs received one or more new bodies in the first ten years of being built.
And I believe one or two Ferraris were also 'updated' with new shells in the 1950's.
Craig
There are a number of important distinctions.
1. A Springfield Rolls Royce with a new body from the factory when it was 3 years old is practically the same as it having its original body. When the new body is really cool, like a Playboy replacing a limo, it is much better. Same is true of Duesenberg - see the Rollston SJ that Mecum is selling at Indy.
2. A body swap on a prewar classic chassis that happened in period is accepted and not frowned upon - assuming it can be proven. But not as good as the car originally carrying that body.
3. A body swap or modification that happened shortly after WWII but was done by a real coachbuilder can be acceptable, but is never as good as done in period. See the Hebmuller 540k as an example.
4. Body swaps done during restoration make the car radioactive to most serious collectors.
The true indication of a cars provenance and desirability is simple...............look at the past owners and who restored it. It tells the entire tale. Recently at dinner, someone was talking about a well known collection in the states. He asked me if I had seen it, and my thoughts. I replied, since thirty percent or more are modified coachwork, modified chassis, and restored like circus wagons......I declined to visit the collection. He was shocked at my response.......and clearly didn't "understand or get it". Once you touch a dirty car......you are forever tainted. I won't even work on one.............
Interesting fact.......if the cars from that collection ever go to auction...........it won’t be one of the “big” auction houses........just too many cars with bad stories. Also, even the few good cars are now tainted. Too cheap to buy good stuff, and too cheap to fix and maintain them properly. He had unlimited money, and just had to have more bling and iron. To say there was no curation is an understatement.
Apr 11, 2021The true indication of a cars provenance and desirability is simple...............look at the past owners and who restored it. It tells the entire tale. Recently at dinner, someone was talking about a well known collection in the states. He asked me if I had seen it, and my thoughts. I replied, since thirty percent or more are modified coachwork, modified chassis, and restored like circus wagons......I declined to visit the collection. He was shocked at my response.......and clearly didn't "understand or get it". Once you touch a dirty car......you are forever tainted. I won't even work on one.............
There are one or two names in every marque that are the death knell for a car if they come up in the ownership history. Off the top of my head I can think of at least 6 or 7, but the list is much bigger.
Apr 11, 2021There are one or two names in every marque that are the death knell for a car if they come up in the ownership history. Off the top of my head I can think of at least 6 or 7, but the list is much bigger.
You mean the guys who take a real car, cut it up and make two, three, and sometimes four “real” cars? It’s a simple mathematical term........... multiplication!
Apr 12, 2021Only those who have been in this hobby since the 1960's truly know how many cars have been rebodied or turned into convertibles. Many more than most think.
I vote the Auburn 12 speedster as the most fabricated car in existence. If you don't have a picture of the original owner sitting inside the engine compartment with the motor and the body visible then chances are your car was built in the 50s, 60s, or 70s.
Apr 12, 2021Then there was the big time collector bragging about his cars, “The factory only built two of these, and I own all three!”
How many cars can we think of where they built 10 but only 20 still exist?
The most frightening open car to buy is a Packard. Prolific when new..........and manufactured by the dozens in multiple years and body styles. I watched a a fake sell for over 600k and the seller and buyer had no clue........while a dozen guys sat back and kept their mouth shut..........it's too expensive today to get into trouble. The later 30's Packards are also all messed up, ten times worse than most people realize. It's not just the 32-34 cars.
Apr 12, 2021I would have to take my shoes off to count all the '32-'34 Packard Coupe Roadsters that I know started life as Coupes. To be fair, if you found a '32-'34 Packard Coupe body skin with the roof removed and the data plate missing it is virtually impossible to tell if that skin was from a coupe or a Coupe Roadster. Would you restore it as a coupe or as a Coupe Roadster?
I like the coupes and nobody will accuse you of building it from a convertible.
Apr 12, 2021Do you view all “fakes” as the same. Clearly a replacement body fabricated in the 1960-1990s is one category. (which appears to be the case in the car that started this thread).
Another category is taking a 1938-1940 Cadillac series 75 convertible coupe body and placing it on a 1938-1940 Cadillac v-16 chassis. Or putting a super 8 Packard body on a Packard v12 chassis of the same year. I don’t love the idea of either but a body not fabricated by the mark is much worse than a period body. Or do you consider all equally bad.
I real body swapped to a real chassis is higher in the pecking order than a fabricated body or fabricated chassis.
The car that is the subject of this thread is very nice and somebody can surely have some fun with it. The problem is when the fabricated stuff gets pushed a real. A real 32 twin six dual cowl has to be a 500-600k car if not more. It will be interesting to see what this one brings.