Willys-Knight – Series 66, 66A, 66B

More.

Really like the 3 window coupe!  

Steve_Mack_CTJul 6, 2019

Really like the 3 window coupe!  

Agreed Steve.  I remember when it was in Hemmings for 40k and I thought what a deal that was for an interesting, attractive full Classic.

https://bringatrailer.com/2016/07/05/sleeve-valve-six-1930-willys-knight-66b-rumble-seat-coupe/

Cool you started this post - neat cars !!!

John_MerenessJul 9, 2019

Cool you started this post - neat cars !!!

we need to attract someone that has actually owned  a car to comment.

Never owned one or driven/ridden in one, but saw quite a few of them at at WOKR meets and always attracted to the few I see out at Concours events. 

A.J.

Prior to 1925, W-K were four cylinder, lower-middle-priced cars..  In an effort to capitalize on the rising apparent prosperity, they added the six cylinder 236.4 ci Model 66 126" wb priced around $2K.  This held through the 1927 66A even as the prices rose.  For 1928-'29, it was designated Great Six 66A, the bore increased for 255 ci. and a 135" wb model added.  These were competition for Studebaker President FA/FB, Auburn 88/115, Graham-Paige 629/827, Kissel 8-80, Hupmobile E-3/Century 125, Gardner 8-90/8-90, basically all those heretofore medium-priced makes taking a run at the entry-level 'luxury' segment.

For 1930-'31, it became Model 66B, reduced only to a five body style 120" wb line, priced uniformly at $1,895.  Best of all, it received that elegant styling by Amos Northup of Murray Corporation, which didn't last long.  W-O was experiencing the affects of the Depression, restyled it into the 66D during '31, carried through '32 and petered out as a 66E sedan only for 1933.  Like all small producers, W-O was generating new model lines during 1931'32 like mad to try and capture more sales.  Even went so far as to offer the Continental-engine Willys 8-80 as a bid for eight cylinder buyers.

W-O had acquired Stearns-Knight in late 1925 as its prestige line.   Turned out Stearns-Knight was an archaic, terribly inefficient operation, a money pit for W-O to keep alive.  In addition to their six, the Model G-8 sleeve-valve straight eight was added for 1928, becoming the Model H 137" wb and Model J 145" wb in the $5,500 range.  But, among the most obscure of the obscure are the 1929 M-6-80, 126" wb  and N-6-80, 134" wb, 255 ci six, sound familiar?  At $2,500-$2,900, these were not much more than badge-engineered, restyled 66A, maybe with nicer appointment.  It was all for naught, Stearns-Knight shut down at the end of 1929.

This is my analysis from reading the spec's and Standard Catalog of American Cars 180-1942, edited by Kimes and Clark.   A great Stearns-Knight article by Dr. Robert Ebert in the Automotive History Review by the Society of Automotive Historians informs this synopsis.

Steve   

The W-K build quality on the large cars was way above average. The eight was very very well done. Rare is an understatement, and it’s one of the weird CCCA platforms I have never driven or serviced. I have a friend who has one of the famous W-K eights, and he has a very diverse collection of great cars. He said it’s under powered. 

edinmassJul 11, 2019

I have a friend who has one of the famous W-K eights, and he has a very diverse collection of great cars. He said it’s under powered. 

It is a Continental, right?   WK didn't make an eight as far as I can tell.   The only sleeve valve eight was the Stearns and Minerva.   Maybe Voisin too?   And how come the later didn't have to be called Minerva-Knight?   I thought that was part of the patent license deal.

AJ, not sure about the eight, as I have never seen one in person that I am aware of. I have seen a Sterns eight, but just in a museum, behind the rope. They basically don’t exist out side of museums.

PS- After forty years I was able to check off one of the final legendary platforms that I had never driven or played with. A Alfa supercharged with a one off body, very cool. Fast and nimble, but as far as SOME of the workmanship was so-so.

The sleeve-valve straight eight Stearns-Knight was their own manufacture.  The Willys 8-80 engine was a Continental Model 14W 245,4 ci. L-head, poppet-valve straight eight powering the Willys 1931-'32 8-80, 8-80D, & 1932-'33 8-88, 8-88A.  One appeared on the Hershey show field during that rain-off year, iirc 2005.  The short-lived '29 Stearns-Knight M-6-80 & N-6-80 were simply W-K 66A wearing a S-K radiator and trim for a premium price.

Love the most obscure of the obscure!

Steve 

Thanks AJ for the look at one of the most interesting Willys-Knights, the 66B plaid-side roadster.  Medium-priced car though it was, it offered buyers style well beyond its price class.   Amos Northup, you done good!  We'll never forget you.

At Hershey in the Dragone tent.

alsancleJul 6, 2019

Agreed Steve.  I remember when it was in Hemmings for 40k and I thought what a deal that was for an interesting, attractive full Classic.

https://bringatrailer.com/2016/07/05/sleeve-valve-six-1930-willys-knight-66b-rumble-seat-coupe/

Nice dash! 

Replacing that square opening in the middle holding all the instruments with a touchscreen will instantly make it 21st Century modern and give Tesla's dashboard design a run for their money!!

Craig

alsancleOct 10, 2019

At Hershey in the Dragone tent.

Cool car - it is going to need some wood, metal, and welding though.  I thought they sold that a year or so ago - thanks for taking the pictures. 

John_MerenessOct 11, 2019

Cool car - it is going to need some wood, metal, and welding though.  I thought they sold that a year or so ago - thanks for taking the pictures. 

Yeah. But it needs a lot!

I was poking around in the engine of one of these in California a few weeks ago. Neat and interesting cars.............the original car in this post will probably never find a collector willing to throw down and restore it..........there are a handful of restored ones available for purchase at less than twenty five percent of the cost to restore one. When you talk about a small market, this car defines the term. Mechanically interesting, open car, rare, decent lines.......it has almost everything.....except large size and displacement thus it’s relegated to the corner of most collections.

edinmassOct 12, 2019

I was poking around in the engine of one of these in California a few weeks ago. Neat and interesting cars.............the original car in this post will probably never find a collector willing to throw down and restore it..........there are a handful of good ones available for purchase at less than twenty five percent of the cost to restore one. When you talk about a small market, this car defines the term. Mechanically interesting, open car, rare, decent lines.......it has almost everything.....except large size and displacement thus it’s relegated to the corner of most collections.

I slightly disagree given I went on a few quest for rare Willys-Overland Knight products as a kid - depending on price it will find someone to restore as incredibly rare and cool car, but that person best be in the position to find a 66B parts car (which is hard in itself as also rare and I see more ragged out ones than anything immediately presentable/drivable) and then if they are just a backyard hobbyist the question comes up of if they can finish the car in their lifetime.   As you know, I have taken on some rough cars in short time periods and it takes a village of people, incredible time, incredible resourcefulness, and unfortunately very deep pockets (I also like to refer to is as the "hard come easy go accounting method"). When I say incredible resourfullness, as you know it takes near miracle working to attack a problem and address it in a way that keeps everyone else in chain gang moving on their projects (ie a roadblock often quickly compounds a timeline, enthusiasm, and ...). 

Sidenote:  Most of those people I went on WOKR quests with are now in their late 70's to early 80's and a large number of them are now deceased.  Last time I hung out in the WOKR tent at Heshey was in the early 1980's - as a kid. 

John_MerenessOct 12, 2019

 Last time I hung out in the WOKR tent at Heshey was in the early 1980's - as a kid. 

It is still sitting in the Red field over by the stadium.