English Rolls Royce

I'll start.

Although I personally prefer the looks of the Springfield-built RRs (ownership prejudice, you know!), there are at least a few(!) good looking Derby-Built  (British) cars.

Here is one of my favorites that I have known for awhile.

This is car 21UF, a 1927 Phantom I torpedo tourer with coachwork by Barker. This car was a Rolls Royce trials car and fitted by the factory with a sedan body for trials in the Riviera. It was later sent back to Barker where it received its current body prior to be sold again by Rolls Royce in about 1929-30. The car remained in England until 1945 when it was brought to the US by a member of the US Military. The last two owners have been good friends of mine and I will likely be placing this car on  the market again.  It is a really sporty car with its extremely narrow coachwork, polished wing fenders and a top that completely disappears when folded. A true four passenger tourer.

This car is well known today though I confess to having forgotten the chassis number is but it may be 25EX. It was one of the experimental Phantom IIs. The photo was taken in New York around 1948 by the late Alden Handy. I think it may have different fenders now.

JV PuleoFeb 1, 2018

This car is well known today though I confess to having forgotten the chassis number is but it may be 25EX. It was one of the experimental Phantom IIs. The photo was taken in New York around 1948 by the late Alden Handy. I think it may have different fenders now.

It is the first LHD PII for the American Market, correct?  I think Frank Cooke in Mass owned it for a long time.  It was sold at auction not too long ago.

motoringiconsFeb 1, 2018

I'll start.

Although I personally prefer the looks of the Springfield-built RRs (ownership prejudice, you know!), there are at least a few(!) good looking Derby-Built  (British) cars.

Here is one of my favorites that I have known for awhile.

I would prefer the American cars if only because of the LHD.  But, I think there are some fantastic coachbuilt English bodies, especially on the Continental chassis.

Oddly enough, I generally prefer the American bodies on these later cars but am indifferent to whether it is LH or RH drive. Were I in a position to buy any RR it would be (1st) A pre-WWI London-Edinburgh tourer or (2nd) a pre-1925 American Ghost.

I heard there was only one LHD Phantom III built and it was a disaster.   Think of how complicated a P III is to begin with, and then add in a complicated mechanism to move the gear shift to the center.  I don't know if it exists or not.   

JV PuleoFeb 1, 2018

Oddly enough, I generally prefer the American bodies on these later cars but am indifferent to whether it is LH or RH drive. Were I in a position to buy any RR it would be (1st) A pre-WWI London-Edinburgh tourer or (2nd) a pre-1925 American Ghost.

Why the pre 25 Ghost Joe?

I have a friend who has 1/2 RHD and 1/2 LHD cars.  If you quiz him he can't remember which is which.  He just doesn't care or pay attention.  For me,  if a car was available both ways,  then I want the LHD.  If it was only delivered RHD (PIII, Bugatti, etc) then RHD is fine with me.

K8096Feb 1, 2018

I heard there was only one LHD Phantom III built and it was a disaster.   Think of how complicated a P III is to begin with, and then add in a complicated mechanism to move the gear shift to the center.  I don't know if it exists or not.   

Rolls and Bentley are the only ones I can think of that go to the right side with the shifter on a RHD car.  Everybody left it in the middle which made  it much easier to build a LHD model for the American and LHD European markets.

alsancleFeb 2, 2018

Why the pre 25 Ghost Joe?

I have a friend who has 1/2 RHD and 1/2 LHD cars.  If you quiz him he can't remember which is which.  He just doesn't care or pay attention.  For me,  if a car was available both ways,  then I want the LHD.  If it was only delivered RHD (PIII, Bugatti, etc) then RHD is fine with me.

I prefer the big (23") wheels without front brakes and the side shifter... all of which were changed to make the car more "American". Driving on the right has never been a problem to me... in fact, I'm off to the UK next week and have to get used to it again. My brass car is RHD with an outside shifter, which was normal in 1910.

1931 PII Continental saloon by Barker (51GX). Built for Brussels Auto Show, December 1931.  I'd like to reel it back in.

West PetersonFeb 2, 2018

I'd like to reel it back in.

Yours at one time West?   I try not to look back

Joe,  are these the wheels you are talking about?

alsancleFeb 3, 2018

Yours at one time West?   I try not to look back

A long time ago it was ours. I love sport sedans, and what could be better than one being on a PII Continental chassis?

We should have a contest to find an ugly PII Continental.

If it's found, it was probably done in Asia or the Middle East.

It will be somebody who ordered a "high hat" like a Rollson.

alsancleFeb 3, 2018

Joe,  are these the wheels you are talking about?

I'd say so, though I don't believe plated wheels are appropriate for a Ghost that early and it was well before the stainless wheels were offered. It is a little difficult to tell from a photograph because the later, 21-in wheels with balloon tires had just about (if not exactly) the the same outside diameter. My taste runs to the very reserved... I don't generally like much plating and think that car would look better with painted wheels. The cars without front brakes are also lighter steering and, to my mind, more pleasant to drive. Properly adjusted, the Ghost 2-wheel brakes are easily adequate---at least I never remember having anything like a "it won't stop" sort of emergency. Keep in mind though, I never owned one. My experience is based on test driving other people's cars.

That looks like a slant windshield Permanent Salamanca. I spent a lot of time with S111BG, the car used in  the Robert Redford "The Great Gatsby" movie. As far as I know, it is in the UK now as I was contacted by an attorney in London who wanted me to confirm that it was the movie car... and "demanded" copies of my invoices for working on it. Needless to say, I dropped the correspondence at that point. I don't have copies of invoices for work I did 35 or 40 years ago and don't respond well to demands.

JV PuleoFeb 3, 2018

That looks like a slant windshield Permanent Salamanca. I spent a lot of time with S111BG, the car used in  the Robert Redford "The Great Gatsby" movie. As far as I know, it is in the UK now as I was contacted by an attorney in London who wanted me to confirm that it was the movie car... and "demanded" copies of my invoices for working on it. Needless to say, I dropped the correspondence at that point. I don't have copies of invoices for work I did 35 or 40 years ago and don't respond well to demands.

"demanded" is funny.  Maybe in England mechanics are required to keep records for 40 years.

Maybe... but I doubt it. Even if I did keep them, it would have been a lot more polite to simply ask if I could copy them. Actually, my shop was flooded just before I closed it and long after S111BG had moved on. All of my records were reduced to a mass of sodden pulp.

jp

This car has been for sale on and off for a long time.  It is very attractive, but the asking price is huge.  I think it is known as the "Barbara Hutton" car.

I get the PI vs PII vs Continental factors in value.  And understand, history, authenticity, etc.  But I see wide swings in the values for some of these car that I can't explain.   What it is about this one that would make worth asking 7 figures while something that might be equally as attractive goes for 1/3 the price?